An Interview with Dale Cramer

Today I'm hosting Dale Cramer today, the author of Levi's Will, Summer of Light, and most recently, Paradise Valley and Captive Heart, a series about the Amish in Mexico. I look forward to each of Dale's books, so it's an honor to have him here.

On Writing

You didn’t publish until later in life. Did you write for your own pleasure before that?

No… well, only for a year or so when I was learning. I mean, I knew when I was a kid that I'd like to write a book someday, and I sort of suspected that I could pull it off, but doesn't everybody? And then I grew up. I had to make a living, and I never managed to go to college, so over the years I forgot about writing the great American novel. I didn't write a word for twenty-five years. Then, when I accidentally stayed home with my kids for a summer I accidentally wrote an article that got published, and accidentally stumbled across a Compuserve writers forum where people wrote and shared stories for fun. I posted short stories on the forum for a year or so, and even published a few in literary magazines. But shorts don't pay anything. Novels do, and the odds of publishing a novel are actually better than the odds of publishing a short story. (It's true— look it up and do the math.) So I wrote a novel. At the time it just seemed like a lark, like I was playing.

You seem so laid-back on your blog, but I know the writing life can have a lot of pressure. What gets you through it?

I do my best to decline pressure. For someone else to put pressure on you, you have to allow it and participate in it. I just don't, for the most part. I do everything in my power to make my deadlines and produce viable manuscripts. Do that, and there's no reason to allow anybody to pressure you. Early on in my construction career I learned that it's not fun to be dressed down for cause, so I made sure I produced. It works. Over the years I trained a number of apprentices, and I always told them, "If you do your job you don't have to take anything off anybody."

On the Daughters of Caleb Bender Series

Why a story about the Amish in Mexico?

Why not? The story has everything. It's original— there's never been an Amish series set in Mexico before. It's exciting— there are bandits and rattlesnakes. And it's romantic— the Benders have seven daughters, several of them eligible. Throw in lush mountain landscapes, remote canyons, a few crimson sunsets, and off you go. And there really were Amish in Paradise Valley, Mexico in the 1920s. My father was born there. A couple years ago I asked him how it was that an Amishman came to be born in Mexico and this whole big story came out, all about mandatory school attendance, fathers being arrested, children taken away and abused, and a bunch of Amish eventually moving south of the border to escape the persecution in Ohio. It's a great story with underlying issues of church versus state and important questions about pacifism that nobody ever asks. I just couldn't turn that down.

Paradise Valley seems to center on Rachel’s story, but I understand that the part that resonated most with a lot of your readers was Miriam and Domingo’s story. Did that catch you by surprise? And why do you think their story captured reader interest?

The reader reaction didn't surprise me at all because the Christian fiction readership is mostly women, mostly romance-oriented, and Miriam/Domingo is a classic romance. What did catch me by surprise was Domingo himself. I knew by the time I finished writing Paradise Valley that Domingo and Miriam were going to be the focal point of the whole trilogy and readers were going to love them. But I honestly didn't know who Domingo was when he first showed up at Agua Nueva, and when he spoke to the girls in German I literally laughed out loud because I didn't see it coming. I didn't plan Domingo, so nearly everything he did surprised me. Best thing to do with a character like that is follow him around and write down what he does.

A theme that runs through both books is non-violence vs. living by the sword. Is this something you’ve had to work out in your own life at all?

Not really, but it looms large for the Amish. I was eligible for the draft during Vietnam, though I was never drafted. If I had been I would have gone without complaint and done whatever was required— I owe that to my country. But these days I can't help wondering if the Christian right shouldn't be a bit less hawkish. I personally believe the Church needs to be very careful about taking an official political stance of any kind, especially where war is involved. It just seems to me that our Christian citizenship and our mandate to be peacemakers ought to transcend borders and political ideologies. For me it's an intriguing question.

While the Amish in the story are stoutly against lifting a hand against the bandits, they don’t see a conflict in asking Mexican soldiers to use arms to protect them. Why do you suppose that is?

If you're getting mugged, you expect the corner policeman to invervene, even if you've done nothing to defend yourself. We all expect the government to protect us from outlaws as a natural benefit of our citizenship, a part of the social contract. The chaos that was post-revolution Mexico didn't provide much protection, but from a writer's point of view it seems plausible that people raised in America would have expected it anyway. Still, it's a valid and perceptive question, and the hypocrisy inherent in the Amish perspective is not really addressed until a generation later in Levi's Will, when Will (son of Levi and Emma Mullet) is contemplating joining the army during World War II. He ponders the very conflict you mention.

The setting is drawn so vividly. Did you travel to Mexico to do any on-site research?

No, I didn't, mostly because the chaos that is present-day Mexico doesn't provide much protection from outlaws. I probably would have gotten kidnapped, since everybody knows American authors are rich, and kidnapping is kind of a cottage industry in Mexico. That said, I did do an enormous amount of research— some online, but also a ton of books and a number of interviews with people who know that part of the country.

The men in the story learn from each other how to be men, and especially how to live with honor. Have you had such a mentor in your life?

Dozens. I spent thirty years doing construction work. If you've ever watched TV you've been programmed to see guys in hardhats a certain way, but like most stereotypes, it's bogus. The stereotype might be accurate for a very small percentage, but the overwhelming majority of construction workers are decent, hardworking, honorable men. They generally do the right thing, even if it costs them, and they look out for each other. Those were the people who taught me most of what I know, and even now almost all of my friends are blue collar.

How many more sequels can we expect in the series?

One more book. I guess we should have made it clear from the start that The Daughters of Caleb Bender was going to be a trilogy; Bk 1- Paradise Valley, Bk 2- The Captive Heart, and Bk 3- as yet untitled. Book 3 (the final installment) will release sometime in December 2012… hopefully before the 21st. There was some talk at one point about a fourth book, if necessary, but by the time I was halfway through the series it became clear that I wouldn't need a fourth book to finish the story. One other thing I'd like to point out is that The Daughters of Caleb Bender is one story— it just happens to be over a thousand pages long. It's a big story. The series is not (as many trilogies are) three separate stories about the same set of characters. The Daughters of Caleb Bender is one long story, the same way The Lord of the Rings was one long story even though it was three books long. The Captive Heart leaves a few loose ends in precisely the same way The Fellowship of the Ring left a few loose ends.

On Dale Cramer

You’ve said something along the lines that your experience with God has not been a Sunday school type of experience, but instead is a working man’s faith. Can you explain that?

Not without using a lot of words (maybe I should write a book). It's just that the Damascus Road experiences in my life all happened someplace other than church, like a mile underground on a mining project, in the burn unit of an urban hospital, driving through Atlanta in a pickup truck, or cruising the western slope of the Appalachians in a sailplane. Real faith finds you wherever it wants; it wraps itself in the fabric of your own unique life experience, and it produces justice, mercy and humility. Once you get beyond yourself, faith means true freedom, true joy. The test of it has nothing to do with rules and everything to do with how we treat other people. We are the arms of God.

What is the favorite book you’ve read this last year?

The Help.

At the end of your life, what would you most like to be remembered for?

I think probably Levi's Will. If you read the book, and the afterword, you'll understand why. What happened with that book was a God thing. Not many people get to be part of something that literally changes lives and restores relationships. If I died right now I'd be content with that.

Any last words?

Wait a minute… first you ask what I want to be remembered for, and then you ask if I have any last words. Do you know something I don't? Have you been talking to my doctor? My wife?

Seriously, is she planning to poison my oatmeal again?

LOL. I guess I should watch my phrasing. Thanks, Dale. This was a lot of fun, and I loved your answers.